Broadcast about the UOC that has shaken the world

On October 27, 2023, renowned American journalist and television host Tucker Carlson posted an interview on X (formerly Twitter) with lawyer Robert Amsterdam, who is currently defending the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) against government persecution. Elon Musk shared a link to this interview on his X account with the question: "Priests are being imprisoned?"

In just five days, this broadcast was viewed by over 103 million people in total. The translation into Russian on the UOJ channel was watched by over 700,000 people in just half a day. All of this reflects the extraordinary interest people have in this topic, not only in Ukraine but far beyond its borders.

On October 24, Robert Amsterdam sent a letter to the members of the Ukrainian Parliament, warning that if they pass an anti-church law, they may face future charges in a foreign court for criminal offenses.

It's important to note that the situation is quite serious for the Ukrainian government, and the absence of a reaction to Amsterdam's words should not mislead anyone into thinking that nothing is happening. It is indeed happening. Therefore, we propose to examine the key points of this highly publicized interview to understand what Amsterdam is accusing Ukrainian officials of and what lies ahead for them.

A few words about the participants in the interview

It's worth mentioning that Tucker Carlson has repeatedly criticized the actions of the Ukrainian government and President Volodymyr Zelensky in relation to the UOC. For instance, Carlson promptly reacted to the events that unfolded in Ukraine in December 2022 when the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) initiated mass searches in UOC monasteries and churches. At that time, he stated that there is no justification for the destruction of the UOC, and there can't be any.

In December 2022, Carlson referred to Zelensky as a "man who is raiding monasteries and churches," and in March 2023, he said that threats to ban the UOC by Ukrainian authorities were an "absolute shame" that cannot be ignored. He stated, "The actions taken by Zelensky can be described, in many respects, as persecution of the faithful of the Church. So why are we silent?"

In July, during a conversation with US presidential candidate Michael Pence, who met with the leader of the OCU, Serhiy Dumenko, in Kyiv, Carlson said, "What Zelensky is doing, arresting hierarchs, is a violation of religious freedom." He later referred to the arrests of UOC priests as barbaric thing.

In other words, Carlson's stance is that of a person who, from the very beginning, was one of the first in the West to react to what was happening in the UOC and has been criticizing the actions of Ukrainian authorities in this matter.

In the interview, Carlson spoke with Robert, or as he is also known, Bob Amsterdam, a representative of the Amsterdam & Partners LLP law firm, which the Ukrainian Orthodox Church sought help from after the Holy Synod's meeting on September 25, 2023. At that time, the hierarchs decided to use all possible legal remedies, both domestic and international, to protect the rights of the UOC.

It's worth noting that Bob Amsterdam is a highly prominent lawyer. He previously defended the interests of Mikhail Khodorkovsky against the Russian court, represented political prisoners in Venezuela, Nigeria, and China, and defended human rights in international courts. Therefore, seeking his assistance is entirely justified since he is one of the leading attorneys to handle cases involving protecting freedom from government arbitrariness.

Furthermore, Mr. Amsterdam cannot be associated with Putin or the Kremlin in any way. In Russia, he is considered an enemy and is banned from entering the country. So, what did Carlson and Amsterdam discuss in their interview?

Attack on Christianity in Ukraine

In Tucker Carlson's opinion, "a lot of what's happening around the world seems like an attack on Christianity." He mentioned the destruction of Christian communities in Iraq, Syria, and across the Middle East, comparing this destruction to the Ukrainian scenario. "The Ukrainian government has now banned an entire Christian denomination, and virtually no one in the United States has said anything about it," Carlson said while introducing Amsterdam to his audience.

The lawyer began by stating that the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (UOC) is the "home of Orthodoxy in Ukraine." He reminded viewers that the UOC has existed for 1,000 years, but the Ukrainian state decided to create the Orthodox Church of Ukraine (OCU), which is intended to "replace the spiritual home of Ukrainians." Amsterdam told Americans that the OCU is "has been engaged in an absolutely vicious, unlimited campaign to steal property, harass, intimidate and and jail clerics."

Persecutions of the UOC are political on their face

Bob Amsterdam noted that the Ukrainian government is engaged in repression against the UOC, alleging that the Church is "somehow connected to the FSB." However, he said, "based on the testimonies I've reviewed, there seems to be little substance to this allegation." Furthermore, according to him, there are other organizations in Ukraine that have been far more infiltrated by Russia than the UOC, such as the "secret police" (presumably the SBU).

According to the lawyer, the reason for persecuting the UOC is much more trivial – the government's desire to gain populist votes in elections, hence "it is in their political interest to destroy this ancient branch of Christianity."

He also pointed out that the UOC and its hierarchs have been inflicted huge damage, "including five year jail sentences for 75 year old clerics," which "just astounds you" given Ukraine's aspiration to join the EU.

In response, Tucker Carlson stated that everything happening in Ukraine is funded by U.S. taxpayers, and Christian leaders in the United States, instead of reacting to the persecution, are saying that UOC representatives are "not Christians" and "Russian agents."

Bob Amsterdam reminded that he once defended one of Putin's biggest enemies, and he is banned from entering Russia. This was a clear indication that he will not be defending "Russian agents." However, the lawyer emphasized that allegations of FSB connections should be substantive, but so far, they are "painfully inadequate" and are "on their face political charges."

Persecutions of the UOC are unlawful

Carlson agreed with Amsterdam's arguments, stating that "it's like prima facie unacceptable for a so-called Western Liberal government to ban a religious denomination."

Responding to his interlocutor, the American lawyer reminded that there are no legal grounds to ban the UOC, and what is happening in Ukraine "goes beyond anything acceptable. It's a violation of the EU charter. It's a violation of the Copenhagen criteria that the Ukraine would have to satisfy to enter the EU."

Amsterdam also believes that the silence regarding the UOC's situation is "dangerous for Christian denominations throughout the world," notably in light of what is happening in Ukraine, where "we see raids on churches, we see violence, we see balaclava covered individuals beating clergy kidnappings." "And it is shocking to me that a country such as the United States, with strong Christian leadership, I thought, could allow this to go on," the lawyer emphasized, considering it shameful that "not only Christian, but all leaders of all denominations have not spoken out against the Ukrainian government."

This is happening because, according to the lawyer, "the Ukraine lobby is immensely powerful and there is a humongous ban on truth right now in the United States with respect to what's happening in Ukraine."

Conclusions

Of course, someone might argue that the high-profile actions by public figures in the U.S. can be explained by the upcoming elections in that country, with some politicians focusing on resolving domestic problems, of which there are plenty in America. In this context, financial aid to Ukraine may be seen as non-essential and unnecessary. To justify such a position, serious arguments are needed. What hurts American society the most is human rights violations and the lack of freedom, especially in the religious sphere. Perhaps, it is all true, and Carlson's stance is dictated by his political views.

However, firstly, it is worth reminding that he almost immediately reacted to what was unfolding in Ukraine last winter. Furthermore, Carlson is a devout Christian who is not afraid to voice his views publicly. So, the role of politics in this case is not the sole driver.

Secondly, even if the defense of the UOC is motivated solely by political interests in light of the upcoming U.S. elections, Ukrainian authorities provide plenty of reasons for criticism. In other words, our officials are doing everything to make Western observers notice the havoc they have wreaked in relation to the UOC. The concerned foreign actors are not just observing it; they are shocked by it. It is safe to say that this shock will not dissipate after the U.S. elections, and Bob Amsterdam will see this through to the end.