"Lavra is our home, we will not leave it of our own free will"

Metropolitan Pavel. Photo: the UOC Synodal Educational Department

On March 10, 2023, the Ministry of Culture announced that a commission had found certain "violations" in the activities of the Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra of the UOC, and the state was terminating the agreement on the use of cult premises with the monastery. In fact, the authorities are expelling the UOC from the Lavra. A UOJ correspondent met with the monastery's abbot, Metropolitan Pavel.

"I will not allow my heart to be trampled on."

− The monastery's brethren have been confronted with the fact that the UOC must leave the territory of the Kyiv Cave Monastery by 29 March, stating that a certain commission has found some violations. What are these violations and do you agree with them?

− I do not agree with these accusations. When Lavra was being restored, we received all the approvals from the museum and the Ministry of culture. Six presidents have changed during my tenure, and someone else will come. Should we adapt to every government? We are the children of Christ; we are the Church of Christ. We are for our country; I am for my country. I am against the war, but I will not allow my heart, faith and the true God to be trampled on.

And what happened today (the work of the commission from the reserve – Ed), you were a witness. No one told me they were coming; they did not give me a list of who would be in this commission. I have a feeling that Tkachenko has had a personal grudge against me from the time I talked to him about the 1+1 TV channel's production against our Church. And today I am not against the commission, please. But to go looking for something to commit provocations... Let them look into their own hearts.

The Lavra has been and will be a monastic centre in Ukraine.

I don't know how true this is, but I've been told that the current actions against the Lavra are an attempt by the authorities to make a gift to Bartholomew, to give our shrine to Turkey. That's why everyone is now shouting that the Lavra supposedly belongs to Moscow. But Moscow has nothing to do with it. I saw the dialogue between Tkachenko and a TSN journalist, where they called us "the Moscow Patriarchate" every other word. And I want to ask a question – where did they find the words "Moscow Patriarchate" in the documents? For this lie alone, the minister and the journalist should be brought to trial and held accountable. Because people watch and think, "Yes, it's really the Moscow Patriarchate." Because the culture minister said so.

Unfortunately, we don't have a minister of culture. We only have a minister of non-culture, because I have already known many former culture ministers: Stupka, Bogutsky, to name but a few, I don't remember everyone, but now such things are happening that have nothing to do with culture.

− How did the brethren of the monastery react to the decision of the authorities?

− All the brethren are determined not to leave the monastery of their own free will. We came here in 1988, there are still monks who remember those times. Until 1994, there were ruins here. What they write is that I destroyed the gate... Apparently, they want to return the Lavra to the state it was before prayer returned to the monastery. And they should be glad that there are people who are doing something. Today, you see, even the crosses on the Refectory Church have darkened after the "services" of some "great" pseudo-Ukrainians. Because if a person who is not ordained by anyone "serves" there, it cannot be called anything but blasphemy.

Crosses on the Refectory Church: the end of 2022 and March 2023. Photo: Ivan Mikuliak's FB page

And all this is happening when our country is being attacked by the enemy. And we pray that God will keep the integrity of Ukraine, and its borders.

− Where will the monastery operate if the authorities do force the monks out of the Lavra?

− I hope that will not happen. If they start killing us... They are the grandsons of the "great leaders": Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, and Khrushchev. We will stand our ground to the last man, but if they throw us out, let the whole world watch. We will talk every day about what is happening around the monastery because provocations are possible every day. Why did I ask for documents from the commission today? Because Tkachenko said that there would be representatives of the Security Service of Ukraine and the Ministry of Internal Affairs. But they are not present. I am "for" the work of the commission, but how can I know who these people are? I was waiting for the acting director of the museum to call and warn me. Nobody did anything. How is it possible to show up like this? I'm not a stranger, either. Sanctions. Well, you imposed them for no reason, for nothing. I won’t be surprised if they revoke my citizenship too. I won’t be surprised at anything today. Maybe, some separatists came then they will accuse me of communicating with them. When they come for inspection, they are obligated to present all their documents.

The work of the "commission of the Ministry of Culture" at the Lavra. Photo: Metropolitan Varsonofy’s FB page.

Filaret's fate awaits Epifaniy

− Do you expect that the parishioners of the UOC will physically defend the Lavra?

− People, our parishioners, will defend our Lavra. I do not urge them, but they come themselves.

− Is a forcible takeover of the Lavra possible?

− Anything is possible today. I want to thank the Ministry of Internal Affairs for their actions (on the day of the Synaxis of the venerable Kyiv Caves fathers), because there used to be a lot of provocations, some individuals would push people, and arrange various checks. But this time it was good, peaceful. Therefore, I am very grateful to the Minister of Internal Affairs. But I have one more request – to interfere less in the affairs of the Church. Some representatives of the authorities come to me and say, "Unite with Epifaniy." What can I say here? Who should we unite with? Let Dumenko first receive lawful ordination... For example, I don't wear a patriarchal koukoulion, because it will just be a travelling circus. And one more thing.

Earlier, we were urged to unite with Filaret. Now, everyone has forgotten about him. The time will come, and the same thing will happen to Epifaniy.

We are doing everything to save souls, for peace, and for prosperity in Ukraine, regardless of nationality, religion, and political views. And those who suggest something to us are doing everything to sow enmity between people. This shouldn’t be done.

Ukraine, Russia and Belarus should be equally important to the Patriarch of All Rus

− Volodymyr Zelenskyy said that Ukraine will not allow Russia to "destroy the Ukrainian Lavra and steal any values from it". Obviously, it goes about the Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra. Is this a message for the UOC?

− What the President said is, on the one hand, correct. But the problem is that we have nothing to do with Russia, nobody commands us. I have nothing in common with the Moscow Patriarchy. Yes, I communicate and will communicate with my friends, bishops and priests, we are one. Just as I communicate with Patriarch Theophilos (Jerusalem Orthodox Church – Ed.), as we communicate with other Local Churches...

But we have the Primate of the Church, His Beatitude Metropolitan Onuphry.

There are some points that were made by Patriarch (Kirill – Ed.). He was speaking for his people and we (UOC – Ed) speak in defence of our people. And there are no mentions during the services because we disagree with some of the things that were said by the Primate of the Russian Orthodox Church.

Ukraine, Russia and Belarus must be equally important to the Patriarch of All Rus.

If he is Patriarch for all, he should have found other words, he should have given a speech of guidance to the Ukrainian warriors, to the Ukrainian people.

− On the feast of the Synaxis of the Venerable Kyiv Caves Fathers, the authorities again prevented parishioners from entering the Upper Lavra, and several buses of OCU supporters were brought to the Dormition Cathedral from the regions. In the Lower Lavra, thousands of UOC believers gathered outdoors in the cold and snow. And their number was incomparably larger than that of Epifaniy’s. What does it mean?

− That people know their pastor and hear his voice and follow him. We served outdoors because we knew that there would be many people. There were 1860 communicants alone. And all in all, we had 8 liturgies in the Lavra on the Day of the Synaxis of the Venerable Fathers. All the temples were full of people. And I have no doubt that if we had had the opportunity to serve at the Refectory Church and the Dormition Cathedral, they would have been full too.

A Liturgy at Kyiv-Pechersk Lavra on the Day of the Synaxis of the Venerable Kyiv Caves Fathers. Photo: Lavra.ua

But we were not given such an opportunity, they let Epifaniy in. What can I say? We do not go to the temples of the OCU, we do not take them over. It’s not just Christian-like. Therefore, for me, they (the OCU leadership – Ed.) do not even exist. As people – yes, but as the clergy ... What can I talk to them about? I am a priest, legally ordained, who has experienced a lot of problems since 1972.

I remember how in the Soviet Union "the great leader's children" used to catch people allowing them into temples. Today their grandchildren are already doing the same thing. But God is not in power, God is in truth.

− What is the situation with the criminal case opened against you? Are investigators ready to take it to court, or have they already understood the absurdity of the undertaking?

− I do not want to sue anyone, I leave everything to God's judgment. I have never defended any mercantile interests of mine. If they judge, let them judge. If I have to suffer, well, that is God's will.

− What is the situation with the sanctions that have been imposed on you?

− I still do not understand why they imposed these sanctions on me, a citizen of Ukraine. Do I have a business or what? There he (Tkachenko - Ed.) talks about trade rows in the Lavra. Yes, this is the life of the monastery. People come, tours are held, and we should offer them at least some bun, but we have to take it all from somewhere. We need to pay for light, for water, we pay for everything. In Rome and other cities, in shrines of the Catholic Church, there are whole pavilions: clothes and other things are sold for the faithful.

If you read the wording of these sanctions, they look very strange at all. "To prevent my ships and planes from entering or flying into the territory of Ukraine. What are they thinking of in the NSDC? Well, if they wrote that I pray badly, I agree. Maybe, I do not observe the fast in the right way, I agree. But what planes, what ships are they talking about?

I have nothing to fear, what do their sanctions matter to me? I will live only as long as the Lord gives me the spirit of life anyway.

Just one question though. Where are their children, where are their grandchildren? Danilov’s and others’. Fighting for their country abroad? And I am here. I was born here; I live here and I will die here. If Russia strikes, it doesn't choose, it can hit me today too. But I will not leave my flock, my people. So, don't label us. Look, when their power is gone, will any of them stay here? I've seen such smart ones before. But I am staying here, I have nothing to lose, I am not afraid of anything, I am staying with my people. And even if I have to suffer from an enemy bullet, so what? Here one's own people kill, let alone the enemies.

− What will the monastery do next? Will there be legal action?

− We're convening the Legal Department. At the moment I would hold the minister and the journalist criminally responsible for the words "Moscow Patriarchate" in relation to us. They can read, can't they? So, let them take the Statute of the UOC and read it carefully.

− The last question. What will happen to the Lavra?

- The Lavra is our shrine, our home, we will not leave it of our own free will.

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